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		<id>https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Blog%3AMain%2FState%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge</id>
		<title>Blog:Main/State's Response to Upward Departure Challenge - Revision history</title>
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		<updated>2026-09-19T02:31:51Z</updated>
		<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?title=Blog:Main/State%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge&amp;diff=12847&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Admin1: Text replace - &quot;| Ryan }}&quot; to &quot;| Ryan:Ryan Scott }}&quot;</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?title=Blog:Main/State%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge&amp;diff=12847&amp;oldid=prev"/>
				<updated>2013-08-09T19:08:02Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Text replace - &amp;quot;| Ryan }}&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;| Ryan:Ryan Scott }}&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table class='diff diff-contentalign-left'&gt;
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			&lt;td colspan='2' style=&quot;background-color: white; color:black;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
			&lt;td colspan='2' style=&quot;background-color: white; color:black;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 19:08, August 9, 2013&lt;/td&gt;
			&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 10:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 10:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;If you are a defense lawyer or investigator, and you want the motion holding that upward departure factors must be subject to a preliminary hearing, as well as a copy of the state's response, just e-mail me at ryan@ryanscottlaw.com.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;If you are a defense lawyer or investigator, and you want the motion holding that upward departure factors must be subject to a preliminary hearing, as well as a copy of the state's response, just e-mail me at ryan@ryanscottlaw.com.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;−&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #ffa; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{wl-publish: 2013-05-07 09:52:19 -0700 | Ryan }}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;+&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{wl-publish: 2013-05-07 09:52:19 -0700 | Ryan&lt;ins class=&quot;diffchange diffchange-inline&quot;&gt;:Ryan Scott &lt;/ins&gt;}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Admin1</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?title=Blog:Main/State%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge&amp;diff=11861&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Ryan@ryanscottlaw.com at 17:13, May 7, 2013</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?title=Blog:Main/State%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge&amp;diff=11861&amp;oldid=prev"/>
				<updated>2013-05-07T17:13:26Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table class='diff diff-contentalign-left'&gt;
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			&lt;td colspan='2' style=&quot;background-color: white; color:black;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
			&lt;td colspan='2' style=&quot;background-color: white; color:black;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 17:13, May 7, 2013&lt;/td&gt;
			&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 3:&lt;/td&gt;
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&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;The defense argument is this:&amp;#160; if the allegations aren't in the indictment, then there needs to be a preliminary hearing under the federal due process clause, because either an indictment or a preliminary hearing is a fundamental aspect of due process.&amp;#160; Both procedures have long and deep roots in American jurisprudence.&amp;#160; &amp;#160;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;The defense argument is this:&amp;#160; if the allegations aren't in the indictment, then there needs to be a preliminary hearing under the federal due process clause, because either an indictment or a preliminary hearing is a fundamental aspect of due process.&amp;#160; Both procedures have long and deep roots in American jurisprudence.&amp;#160; &amp;#160;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;−&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #ffa; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;The state's response doesn't dispute that preliminary hearings -- in the absence of an indictment -- are guaranteed by the due process clause.&amp;#160; The state's only reason in opposing the motion is that &amp;quot;sentence enhancements&amp;quot; are not elements, and therefore the rules are different.&amp;#160; There is no due process guarantee for sentence enhancements.&amp;#160; &amp;#160;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;+&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;The state's response doesn't dispute that preliminary hearings -- in the absence of an indictment -- are guaranteed by the due process clause.&amp;#160; The state's only reason in opposing the motion is that &amp;quot;sentence enhancements&amp;quot; are not elements, and therefore the rules are different.&amp;#160; There is no &lt;ins class=&quot;diffchange diffchange-inline&quot;&gt;similar &lt;/ins&gt;due process guarantee for sentence enhancements.&amp;#160; &amp;#160;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;The obvious rejoinder is that the due process argument is, self-evidently, made entirely under the US Constitution, and, under the US Constitution, there is no legal difference between elements of a crime and sentence enhancements.&amp;#160; SCOTUS has said so repeatedly, and you can even get a hint of irritation from Justice Sotomayor in the majority opinion in ''Southern Union v US'' that prosecutors still keep trying to claim otherwise.&amp;#160; She said, in response to essentially the same argument the state makes here:&amp;#160; &amp;#160;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class='diff-marker'&gt;&amp;#160;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;The obvious rejoinder is that the due process argument is, self-evidently, made entirely under the US Constitution, and, under the US Constitution, there is no legal difference between elements of a crime and sentence enhancements.&amp;#160; SCOTUS has said so repeatedly, and you can even get a hint of irritation from Justice Sotomayor in the majority opinion in ''Southern Union v US'' that prosecutors still keep trying to claim otherwise.&amp;#160; She said, in response to essentially the same argument the state makes here:&amp;#160; &amp;#160;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Ryan@ryanscottlaw.com</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?title=Blog:Main/State%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge&amp;diff=11857&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Ryan@ryanscottlaw.com: Created page with &quot;&lt;summary&gt;As many of you know, I have been encouraging defense attorneys to challenge sentence enhancement allegations which aren't contained in the indictment.  This argument ...&quot;</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://libraryofdefense.ocdla.org/index.php?title=Blog:Main/State%27s_Response_to_Upward_Departure_Challenge&amp;diff=11857&amp;oldid=prev"/>
				<updated>2013-05-07T16:52:19Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Created page with &amp;quot;&amp;lt;summary&amp;gt;As many of you know, I have been encouraging defense attorneys to challenge sentence enhancement allegations which aren&amp;#039;t contained in the indictment.  This argument ...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;summary&amp;gt;As many of you know, I have been encouraging defense attorneys to challenge sentence enhancement allegations which aren't contained in the indictment.  This argument is new, and it's an issue of first impression in Oregon.  Yesterday, I received a copy of the state's response to the argument, the first one I've seen.  And it should be very encouraging to those of you who have thought about filing the motion.&amp;lt;/summary&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The defense argument is this:  if the allegations aren't in the indictment, then there needs to be a preliminary hearing under the federal due process clause, because either an indictment or a preliminary hearing is a fundamental aspect of due process.  Both procedures have long and deep roots in American jurisprudence.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The state's response doesn't dispute that preliminary hearings -- in the absence of an indictment -- are guaranteed by the due process clause.  The state's only reason in opposing the motion is that &amp;quot;sentence enhancements&amp;quot; are not elements, and therefore the rules are different.  There is no due process guarantee for sentence enhancements.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The obvious rejoinder is that the due process argument is, self-evidently, made entirely under the US Constitution, and, under the US Constitution, there is no legal difference between elements of a crime and sentence enhancements.  SCOTUS has said so repeatedly, and you can even get a hint of irritation from Justice Sotomayor in the majority opinion in ''Southern Union v US'' that prosecutors still keep trying to claim otherwise.  She said, in response to essentially the same argument the state makes here:  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This argument has two defects. First, it rests on an assumption that ''Apprendi'' and its progeny have uniformly rejected: that in determining the maximum punishment for an offense, there is a constitutionally significant difference between a fact that is an “element” of the offense and one that is a “sentencing factor.” ''See, e.g., 530 U. S.,'' at 478; Ring, 536 U. S., at 605. Second, we doubt the coherence of this distinction. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are a defense lawyer or investigator, and you want the motion holding that upward departure factors must be subject to a preliminary hearing, as well as a copy of the state's response, just e-mail me at ryan@ryanscottlaw.com.&lt;br /&gt;
{{wl-publish: 2013-05-07 09:52:19 -0700 | Ryan }}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Ryan@ryanscottlaw.com</name></author>	</entry>

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